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All because two people fell in love… Part 2

This entry is part of 2 in the series All because two people fell in love…
Ed and Mary (Helbling) McMurray, 26 Sep 1948, in Newton, Iowa.

McMurray Family, Roberts Family, Lee Family, Broida Family, Cooper Family (Click for Family Tree)

Three years ago today I posted some images along with lyrics from Brad Paisley’s song, “Two People Fell in Love.” Seemed like that was just not enough pictures of our ancestors who fell in love, so we decided to provide Part 2 and make it a series, as wonderful pictures become available.

Of course, the secret to a good marriage is making every day a day to celebrate your love, not just a day in the midst of February. Our ancestors probably struggled with this concept like we sometimes do, especially when the mundane gotta-dos of life get in the way. Many of them had long, loving marriages though, and they were good role models for their descendants of today.

Please enjoy these lovely people on this Valentine’s Day of 2018 !

1940- from left Ruth Nadine (Alexander) Lee, Henrietta (Fasterling) Reuter, a friend, in center, and Ruth’s husband, Lloyd Eugene “Gene” Lee on right with 1940 Pontiac, license plate from Missouri but image likely taken in Colorado.

 

McMurray-Benjamin Family circa 1886: Frederick Asbury McMurray, Hannah "Melissa" Benjamin McMurray, William Elmer McMurray, Harry J. McMurray, Addie Belle McMurray, Roy McMurray, and Ray McMurray (baby)
McMurray-Benjamin Family circa 1886: Frederick Asbury McMurray, Hannah “Melissa” Benjamin McMurray, William Elmer McMurray, Harry J. McMurray, Addie Belle McMurray, Roy McMurray, and Ray McMurray (baby)

 

1974_02_40th Wedding Anniversary of Gertrude Belle (Broida) Cooper and Irving Israel Cooper.

 

George Anthony Roberts with his wife Ella V. Daniel Roberts and their three children: Ethel Gay Roberts standing in back on left, George Anthony Roberts, Jr. standing on right, and little Edith Mae Roberts between her beloved parents, circa 1904.
George Anthony Roberts with his wife Ella V. Daniel Roberts and their three children: Ethel Gay Roberts standing in back on left, George Anthony Roberts, Jr. standing on right, and little Edith Mae Roberts between her beloved parents, circa 1904.

 

William Anderson Murrell and Cordelia (Talley) Murrell- possibly wedding photo? If so, would have been taken 1 Oct 1867 in Warren Co., IL.

 

John and Gitel (Frank) Broida, c. 1889.

 

 

Notes, Sources, and References: 

  1. “All because two people fell in love” HeritageRamblings.net post, 14 Feb 2015– http://heritageramblings.net/2015/02/14/all-because-two-people-fell-in-love/
  2. “Two People Fell in Love,” song by Brad Paisley- see above article for more information.

 

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We would love to read your thoughts and comments about this post (see form below), and thank you for your time! All comments are moderated, however, due to the high intelligence and persistence of spammers/hackers who really should be putting their smarts to use for the public good instead of spamming our little blog.
 

Original content copyright 2013-2017 by Heritage Ramblings Blog and pmm.

Family history is meant to be shared, but the original content of this site may NOT be used for any commercial purposes unless explicit written permission is received from both the blog owner and author. Blogs or websites with ads and/or any income-generating components are included under “commercial purposes,” as are the large genealogy database websites. Sites that republish original HeritageRamblings.net content as their own are in violation of copyright as well, and use of full content is not permitted. 
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Tuesday’s Tip: Researching Matthew Johns and his Second Wife

Sugar Grove Conservative Friends Meeting House, built 1870 in Hendricks Co., Indiana, with an openable partition between male and female sections. Image by Jonathunder, via Wikipedia, GFDL 1.2. (This is not where the Johns family worshipped- just an example of what a friends meeting House looked like.)

Murrell Family, Roberts Family (Click for Family Tree)

Tuesday’s Tip: Research organizations to which your ancestor belonged, whether religious, fraternal, military veteran, club, or ?? They may provide answers to questions that will help flesh out your family history.

Finding out that the funeral service of Matthew Johns took place at the Friends Church in Wilkinson, Indiana, was quite a surprise- we had no idea he belonged to the Religious Society of Friends, also known as Quakers. The fact that he had a second wife was a surprise as well. We do have other Quaker ancestors, such as Lewis Walker of Chester, Pennsylvania, so learning a bit more about Quakerism seemed in order, and might help us to learn more details about this family’s life.

One of our research goals is to learn the name of Matthew’s second wife, and another is to learn the date of their marriage. We started with the hypothesis that the date was after Matthew’s first wife, Ellen (Maggard) Johns passed away in 1886. A search in Indiana marriage records, however, came up empty.

Our additional research into the Quakers in Indiana gave a clue as to a possible reason for us being unable to find a marriage record. The Indiana Historical Society has a wonderful website that includes an “Introduction to the Quaker Records Project.” This document should be required reading for anyone researching Quakers.

The Intro explains that Quakers (AKA “Friends”) did not believe in being married by a “hireling priest” or a civil servant- Friends married themselves. They also monitored themselves to ensure proper behavior. One of the Quaker church gatherings was called a “Monthly Meeting” (MM), and at that meeting, the couple would announce their intention to marry- similar to the marriage banns required by the Catholic church and other religions. After the intention was announced, the MM would appoint a committee to investigate and make sure the bride and groom were both “clear of engagements,” i.e., not married or promised to another. If the individuals were, indeed, free of others per the committee’s report at the next MM, the couple would be declared “at liberty to accomplish the marriage.” Of course, a committee would be appointed to attend the marriage to ensure that “good order was preserved.” Sometimes a special meeting was called to include the marriage, and in earliest Quaker marriages, the ceremony would take place at the next midweek worship meeting. After the mid-1800s, which was when Matthew would have married a second time, the marriage took place on First-day. (First-day was Sunday, and meetings occurred on this day. The Quakers used a “plain calendar” which used numbers for days of the week and the months- they did not want to use names derived from pagan deities, like Saturday, named after Saturn, an ancient Roman god of time, agriculture, plenty, or January, named after the Roman god Janus, the god of beginnings and endings, passages and duality, etc.)

Detailed records were kept of the business of the Monthly Meeting, so if they survive for the Wilkinson Church, we should be able to learn the name of Matthew’s second wife, when they married, and even her parent’s names and residences of all involved.

Understanding the process of marriage within a religion is always insightful, but why does this have importance in our research? The Indiana History website tells us:

“The laws of Indiana, until the 1920s, exempted Friends from the legal requirement to obtain a civil marriage license. Thus marriages performed under the care of a monthly meeting will not be found in courthouse records.”

Looking at the historical timeline of an organization and their rules/dogma may give us more clues to help our research:

“Disownment for marrying a non-Friend or for marrying by civil ceremony had been abandoned by the 1860s. The member concerned had only to indicate that he wished to retain his membership. By the 1880s the whole matter was ignored. Some Friends churches had paid preachers, and the marriage form was soon fashioned after other Protestant ceremonies.”

So yes, we will still look further for this marriage information within civil records, since they likely married in the mid-1880s. But we now know that we may only find the information within the records of a Monthly Meeting, especially if this more-rural church maintained a more traditional point of view.

Knowing this information, we have another clue into Matthew’s life: his second wife may have been Quaker, since we have not yet found a marriage record, but his first wife may not have been when they married, since we do have a record of their marriage. Of course, this is hypothesis, and more research into the Quaker records of this area may give us the answers we desire.

 

Notes, Sources, and References: 

  1. Introduction to the Quaker Records Project– http://www.indianahistory.org/our-services/books-publications/magazines/online-connections/quaker-records/introquakerrecords.pdf
  2.  Image from Wikipedia, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SugarGroveFriendsDivision.jpg 
  3. GFDL 1.2 for image– https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:GNU_Free_Documentation_License,_version_1.2
  4. FamilySearch Wiki articles on Quakers– https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Society_of_Friends_(Quakers)_in_the_United_States   and https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/U.S._Quaker_Research_(Society_of_Friends)
  5. Wilkinson Meetings are listed under the Knightstown meeting (formerly Raysville), located in Henry County, Indiana– https://quakermeetings.com/Plone/meeting_view?anID=514 and the Shirley meeting, located in Hancock County, Indiana– https://quakermeetings.com/Plone/meeting_view?anID=815. Unfortunately none of the links worked for websites with the records.

 

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We would love to read your thoughts and comments about this post (see form below), and thank you for your time! All comments are moderated, however, due to the high intelligence and persistence of spammers/hackers who really should be putting their smarts to use for the public good instead of spamming our little blog.
 

Original content copyright 2013-2017 by Heritage Ramblings Blog and pmm.

Family history is meant to be shared, but the original content of this site may NOT be used for any commercial purposes unless explicit written permission is received from both the blog owner and author. Blogs or websites with ads and/or any income-generating components are included under “commercial purposes,” as are the large genealogy database websites. Sites that republish original HeritageRamblings.net content as their own are in violation of copyright as well, and use of full content is not permitted. 
Descendants and researchers MAY download images and posts to share with their families, and use the information on their family trees or in family history books with a small number of reprints. Please make sure to credit and cite the information properly.
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Sunday’s Obituary: Matthew Johns (1817-1899)

Matthew JOHNS, obituary. Indianapolis Journal, March 5, 1899, part 1, page 7, column 5, via ChroniclingAmerica.LOC.gov.

ROBERTS Family, HONTS Family (Click for Family Tree)

 

If you are a descendant of Edith (ROBERTS) [McMURRAY] LUCK, or of Mary Magdalene “Polly” HONTS or her father, Henry HONTS/JOHNS, then you are related to Matthew. Matthew was the half-brother of Mary, who was the great-grandmother of Edith on the side of her father, George A. ROBERTS.

Matthew was the second known child of Henry Honts/Johns and his mistress, Elizabeth FIRESTONE LAMPERT. Henry and Elizabeth did eventually marry and have more children, but theirs is another story that is soon to come on this blog. In the meantime, we know that Matthew lived a good, respectable life as a blacksmith and farmer, and raised 10 children with his wife Elizabeth MAGGART/MAGGARD.

The obituary tells us a few things we did not know. Only one son and four daughters survived him- just half of his children. Additionally, we did not know of a second marriage- the obituary states his second wife survived him. We do know that first wife Elizabeth died in 1886, so a second marriage is very possible, however we have not found a record of that marriage or her name. The name of his second wife would have been listed on the 1890 US Federal Census, but that did not survive for us to view today. There are a number of women with the surname Johns listed in Hancock County, Indiana, in the 1900 US Federal Census, and at least 1 is listed as a widow, but that research is for another cousin who is more closely related to complete.

One very interesting part of the obituary is that his memorial service was held at the Friends Church in Wilkinson, Indiana. That tells us that Matthew had become a Quaker. Was that something that happened after he married his second wife, or was Elizabeth also a Quaker and they practiced the faith throughout their married life? Or had Matthew become a Quaker on his own as an adult, or possibly as a child? We have seen nothing about Matthew’s parents being Quakers, but that would be very interesting, due to their past “indiscretions” and flaunting of society’s morals. The Quakers were forgiving people, however, so it might be possible.

This obituary provides us with one more avenue of research, important since Matthew’s father, Henry Honts/Johns, is one of our direct ancestors. The Quakers kept very good records and although there is no longer a Friends church in Wilkinson, there are two Friends churches within about 10 miles today, and they may have the records of Matthew’s family. One more item for the To-Do List now…

 

More to come on the Honts/Johns family…

 

Notes, Sources, and References: 

  1. Matthew JOHNS, obituary. Indianapolis Journal, March 5, 1899, part 1, page 7, column 5, via ChroniclingAmerica.LOC.gov.

 

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We would love to read your thoughts and comments about this post (see form below), and thank you for your time! All comments are moderated, however, due to the high intelligence and persistence of spammers/hackers who really should be putting their smarts to use for the public good instead of spamming our little blog.
 

Original content copyright 2013-2017 by Heritage Ramblings Blog and pmm.

Family history is meant to be shared, but the original content of this site may NOT be used for any commercial purposes unless explicit written permission is received from both the blog owner and author. Blogs or websites with ads and/or any income-generating components are included under “commercial purposes,” as are the large genealogy database websites. Sites that republish original HeritageRamblings.net content as their own are in violation of copyright as well, and use of full content is not permitted. 
Descendants and researchers MAY download images and posts to share with their families, and use the information on their family trees or in family history books with a small number of reprints. Please make sure to credit and cite the information properly.
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Tombstone Tuesday: Sarah (McClure) Roberts of Ripley County, Indiana

Headstone of Sarah McClure Roberts in Old Hopewell Cemetery, Ripley County, Indiana, via Find A Grave with kind permission of the photographer.

Roberts Family (Click for Family Tree)

This very hard-to-read headstone is in Old Hopewell Cemetery, a Baptist cemetery in Ripley County, Indiana. From the picture, it seems the marker reads:

SARAH

wife of Dr. J.  Roberts

DIED

Feb. 26 1872

AGE(D?)

24 (remaining is illegible from photo, but is likely “yrs, 3 mos., 8 days”)

Sarah (McClure) Roberts **may** be the daughter of Samuel B. McClure (1810-1898) and Kesiah “Cassy” Rees (1812-1883) per many Ancestry trees, but this does need to be verified. Census entries through 1870 exist for this couple showing a Sarah McClure as a child and about the correct age and in the expected place, however no marriage record has been found, nor mention of her parents in a biography of her husband.

If this is the correct family, it suggests that Sarah and “Doc” (Jeremiah “Jerry” Roberts) married sometime after the 1870 US Federal Census was taken (the date on the census page is 16 July 1870) and Sarah’s young death on 26 Feb 1872.

More research on this family is needed.

 

Notes, Sources, and References: 

  1. Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 10 January 2018), memorial page for Sarah Roberts (18 Nov 1847–26 Feb 1872), Find A Grave Memorial no. 45207748, citing Old Hopewell Cemetery, Ripley County, Indiana, USA ; Maintained by Mike Porter (contributor 46953542) . Mike gave us his generous permission to use this photo and others from Old Hopewell.

 

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We would love to read your thoughts and comments about this post (see form below), and thank you for your time! All comments are moderated, however, due to the high intelligence and persistence of spammers/hackers who really should be putting their smarts to use for the public good instead of spamming our little blog.
 

Original content copyright 2013-2017 by Heritage Ramblings Blog and pmm.

Family history is meant to be shared, but the original content of this site may NOT be used for any commercial purposes unless explicit written permission is received from both the blog owner and author. Blogs or websites with ads and/or any income-generating components are included under “commercial purposes,” as are the large genealogy database websites. Sites that republish original HeritageRamblings.net content as their own are in violation of copyright as well, and use of full content is not permitted. 
Descendants and researchers MAY download images and posts to share with their families, and use the information on their family trees or in family history books with a small number of reprints. Please make sure to credit and cite the information properly.
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Mystery Monday: Was Edward Roberts in Franklin, Kentucky before 1831?

Frankfort (Kentucky) Argus, 20 Apr 1831, Vol 25, No. 19, Page 3.

Roberts Family (Click for Family Tree)

One way to help determine when a family migrated is to look at where they were located in the US Federal or a state census. Those censuses only show us a snapshot every 10 years, with sometimes a state census (or the 1940 Federal) showing us a year halfway through the decade. To narrow the date of migration further, we can use newspaper articles. Sometimes there will be short articles posted about a good-bye party, or a note about a store closing or a farmer selling at auction and moving on. One other type of newspaper article can help us pinpoint a date- and advertisement for “dead letters” sitting at the post office, awaiting pickup.

In the early years of our country, the mail carrier did not come to a person’s home, especially if they lived in a rural area. People would make a trip to their post office, which might be in the General Store of the small town nearby. They would go to the counter, or a Post Office window, and ask for their mail. This area was often a gathering place, where one could meet neighbors and townsfolk, exchange stories, gossip, and argue politics. (George A. Roberts of Jasper County, Iowa was one who did the latter regularly, according to his daughter Edith (Roberts) [McMurray] Luck.)

When someone moved on and no one picked up their mail to forward it, the Post Office would publish their names in the local newspaper in hope of someone seeing the notice and helping to get the letters sent on. The addressee had three months in which to pick up their letter; after that time, it would be sent to the General Post Office as an official dead letter.

In 1831, the New Castle, Kentucky P.O. published a list in the newspaper that included the name “Edward Roberts.” Finding “our” Edward is challenging due to his common name and lack of middle initial, and we are not sure where he was in Kentucky at various times. What makes this listing of interest is that a “Charles Stewart” (again, a somewhat common name) also is noted as having a letter sitting at the New Castle P.O. in 1831.

You may remember that “Charles Steward” signed a marriage bond on 25 February 1800, along with “Edward Robbards,” guaranteeing the marriage of Edward to Rosy Steward. We do not know if Charles was Rosy’s father, brother, or uncle, but of course, back then a woman had few legal rights so could not sign the bond for herself and a male family member or friend would have to represent her. In a way this discrimination does help us, however, since it gives us another related name to search for in the area.

The marriage bond was signed in Winchester, Clark County, Kentucky, about 80 miles from New Castle. That would be a 3-4 day ride on horseback- a bit far to be courting- but the family may have moved in the ensuing 30 years within Kentucky and closer to New Castle, and then on to Indiana. Some families, especially if they rented farmland, would move frequently to better quality land. Also, if they had decided to migrate, they might travel part of the way, work for a while, and then move on to another destination that might be more lucrative than their original migration plan. It has been suggested that the government gave Revolutionary War veterans land in Kentucky, but then they had to move on to Indiana for some reason- we do need to learn more about this, but our Roberts ancestors did move in that direction.

One Ancestry.com tree has the youngest child of Edward and Rosy, Mary Ann, born in Jessamine, Kentucky, in 1817. (No source listed for that birthplace.) So the family may have left after then for Indiana, or even been traveling when Mary Ann was born!

There is an 1820 US Federal Census for Ripley County, Indiana, that lists Edward Roberts as being 45 and there being 3 members of the household working in agriculture. We cannot prove this is “our” Edward Roberts but it most likely is. In 1840, in Switzerland, Indiana, John S. Roberts is listed, as is a Charles Stewart and other Roberts heads of households. Biographies state that John S. Roberts lived in Switzerland Co., so we can be more sure about this being “our” ancestor.

The above data suggests that the family migrated  sometime after 1817 and before 1820. So why might there be letters for men of that name back in Kentucky?

  1. Maybe they still held land there thus letters were sent to KY.
  2. Military pension information may have been sent to them at their address in KY- back then the government didn’t always keep up, either.
  3. Family or friends back in Maryland or wherever may not have known about their move. The Post Office could not always deliver to or from the frontier.
  4. They could just be different men and this is another genealogical wild goose chase. (I prefer to say it is a “reasonably exhaustive search.”)

As already stated, just because these common names are found in the same place at the same time does not mean they are related to each other or even to us. The next step would be to learn more about these men, and the 1810 census for an Edward Roberts in Franklin, Kentucky does contribute to the story. Sadly the early censuses do not list other members of the household (that started in 1850, but no relationship was given then) but each piece of information is another piece of a puzzle that might end up being “our” Edward Roberts- or maybe one from a completely different line. (Negative findings are important too.) We just need more research to separate out these men, and this “Mystery Monday” post may help us with locations in which to search for more detailed information.

Here are some other ‘dead letter’ notices that include an Edward Roberts, Stewarts, and other names similar to our ancestors:

John Roberts and William Stewart, Weekly Messenger, page 4, Russellville [KY], 15 April 1826.

Edward Roberts and David Stewart, Reporter, page 3, Lexington [KY], 17 January 1827.

Edward Roberts and David Stewart, Reporter, page 3, Lexington [KY], 20 January 1827.

Edward Roberts in Reporter, page 3, Lexington [KY], 24 January 1827.

Edward Roberts in  Commentator, page 3, Frankfort [KY], 19 April 1828.

Edward Roberts in  Commentator, page 11, Frankfort [KY], 26 April 1828.

Edward Roberts, John Roberts, and a Ralph Stewart listed, Commentator, page 3, Frankfort [KY], 07 July 1829. (“Our” John S. Roberts would have been 24 in 1829.)

Thomas Roberts, Edward Roberts, John Roberts, and a Ralph Stewart listed, Commentator, page 3, Frankfort [KY], 14 July 1829.

Thomas Roberts, John Roberts, and a Ralph Stewart listed, Commentator, page 3, Frankfort [KY], 21 July 1829.

Edward Roberts and Charles Stewart, Frankfort (Kentucky) Argus, 13 Apr 1831, Vol 25, No. 9, Page 4.

Edward Roberts and Charles Stewart, Frankfort (Kentucky) Argus, 20 Apr 1831, Vol 25, No. 19, Page 3. (seen above)

 

Notes, Sources, and References: 

  1. Frankfort (Kentucky) Argus, 20 Apr 1831, Vol 25, No. 19, Page 3.
  2. GenealogyBank.com is the source of the above articles- love that website!

 

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We would love to read your thoughts and comments about this post (see form below), and thank you for your time! All comments are moderated, however, due to the high intelligence and persistence of spammers/hackers who really should be putting their smarts to use for the public good instead of spamming our little blog.
 

Original content copyright 2013-2017 by Heritage Ramblings Blog and pmm.

Family history is meant to be shared, but the original content of this site may NOT be used for any commercial purposes unless explicit written permission is received from both the blog owner and author. Blogs or websites with ads and/or any income-generating components are included under “commercial purposes,” as are the large genealogy database websites. Sites that republish original HeritageRamblings.net content as their own are in violation of copyright as well, and use of full content is not permitted. 
Descendants and researchers MAY download images and posts to share with their families, and use the information on their family trees or in family history books with a small number of reprints. Please make sure to credit and cite the information properly.
 Please contact us if you have any questions about copyright or use of our blog material.

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